Date:          26th August, 2010

Location:     RimAsia Capital Partners

Who was present:

• Julian Lee
• Lester Lim
• Andrew Leyden
• Kin Ko
• Michelle Lam
• Ng Chun Yin 

Key Points Discussed (summarized by Julian):

• What is a hackerspace?
• In general, there were differing opinions as to how to define what a hackerspace is.  This was also reflected in the wide variety of examples of hackerspaces that were seen on the hackspace.org wiki.
• It will be difficult to convince others to join the effort in setting up a hackerspace if we do cannot explain what it is we do simply.

• Why do we want a hackerspace? 
• In terms of what each member hoped to get out of the hackerspace, all agreed that the key was the social contact.  For example, Michelle talked about meeting interesting people, while Andrew talked about a platform to meet local geeks and to share experience and knowledge with others.  Julian suggested that the hackerspace can be considered a "social club for geeks", where "geeks" can be defined as "One who is perceived to be overly obsessed with one or more things including those of intellectuality, electronics, etc."
• In addition to the social element, Michelle also expressed that the hackerspace could be a place where she could get access to and try new things, and also support the startup environment.  Some others (including Lester and Julian) felt that the hackerspace could be seen as an idea incubator (rather than a business incubator) where the idea could be tinkered with before any commercial element is obvious.
• Chun Yin also felt that the space element is important, since it would allow him to do things that he physically cannot do at home.

• How important is the "space" in hackerspace? 
• Kin expressed was that at present there was a "chicken and egg" problem - that it was unclear what the hackerspace is, and hence hard to attract members; but at the same time, we needed members to help shape (and pay for) a hackerspace.
• Michelle suggested that we may not need a physical hackerspace immediately; that perhaps initially we should simply set up events around certain themes, and borrow facilities to host them in.  This would allow us to both gauge the level of interest, and to get the word out quickly.
• Julian asked whether the hackerspace should be organized versus free/informal, both in initial phase and once we get the space up and running.  There seemed to be a difference of opinions (perhaps both approaches can co-exist?) where some wanted more organized, introductory events, while others preferred the space to simply be a place where you can experiment with whatever equipment is there, at your own pace and without someone "supervising".
• In subsequent research, Julian found that this event focused model has been practised elsewhere as well; e.g. the Beijing Linux Users Group has a series of projects ongoing without a formal space.  However, they were also not successful in getting their hackerspace off the ground. 

• Where would we want this space? How often would we go?
• In general, people agreed that we need the initial space to be somewhere accessible to everyone.
• Kin suggested looking at Tai Kok Tsui, where there is some inexpensive factory space (around HK$6-7 per square foot) that can be used.
• Julian suggested that from the cost perspective, there are a number of other locations that could potentially work, including Chai Wan (HK$6-7 per square foot) or Fortress Hill (HK$8-9 per square foot).
• In terms of preferences, people expressed the following views:
• Andrew:     Anywhere near an MTR station, within 45 minutes of travel
• Michelle:    Anywhere drivable
• Kin:            Ideally anywhere within 45 minutes of Fo Tan
• Lester:       Around 30 minutes from the mid-levels
• Chun Yin:  Anywhere on Kowloon side
• Julian:        Preferably on HK side, but (realistically) anywhere within about 30 minutes of Central is ok
• Michelle suggested that the location may not be so important, since the hackerspace may provide facilities (and people) that would make people willing to travel.
• Julian suggested that the key would be to have a critical mass of members such that there would always be someone around.  He felt that a key difference with a cowork space is that cowork members would be there everyday, while hackerspace members would only visit occasionally.   Hence Julian felt that if we hope people will drop by several times a week (whenever they have time), that we need somewhere very accessible.
• In terms of frequency of use, the attendees planned to use as follows:
• Andrew:     If I have a project ongoing, maybe 2-3 days a week.  If not, perhaps 2 times a month.
• Kin:            I plan to visit only once a month
• Michelle:    I plan to visit only once a month
• Lester:       Maybe once a week
• Chun Yin:  If I have a project, I will go everyday.  If not, maybe once a month
• Julian:        I would hope to go 2-3 times a week if not too far, maybe once a week if further. 

• How many members do we need to make this successful?
• In the event that people are likely to go only a few times a month on average, then Julian suggested that we need at least 50 members to make the hackerspace viable (in terms of not turning up to an empty space all the time).
• Economically, this was also seen as the level required to make this viable, since if we assumed HK$20k per month expenses (1,500 sq ft @ HK$7 p.s.f, plus HK$5k renovation depreciation plus HK$2.5k utilities and HK$2.5k equipment fund) for example, this would mean an average membership fee of HK$400 per month.
• Several members (e.g. Chun Yin) felt that it may be difficult to extract this level of membership fees from the members, particularly if the utilization is so low, and if the "value" of such a hackerspace is not immediately apparent.